Design for Digital Takeover: Part 2

Episode Transcript

Jerry Kane: Welcome to the Design for Digital Takeover of the Filene Fill-In podcast, presented by Filene Research Institute as a part of the Design for Digital Center of Excellence. I’m your host, Jerry Kane, and each episode is crafted, especially for credit union executives who are leading through digital change. We explore the insights, innovations, and operational playbooks that matter now from member experience and analytics to AI strategy and sustainable growth.

You’ll hear from researchers, operators, and visionaries who are turning technology into real business value. Today, I’m excited to welcome Sumeet Grover, EVP and Chief Strategic Growth and Digital Officer at University Federal Credit Union, or UFCU. He joined UFCU in March 2025 after serving as EVP and Chief Digital and Marketing Officer at Alliant Credit Union and earlier nearly two decades at Citibank, leading across digital customer experience, operations, and technology.

Sumeet, thanks for being here.

Sumeet Grover: Thanks for having me, Jerry. Very excited.

JK: Excellent. Yes, so before we talk roadmap, what problem were you actually hired to solve at UFCU? What’s, you know, the real mandate versus the stated mandate?

SG: That’s a great question. Thanks for asking that. You know, it can go in multiple folds. You know, when you think of the real mandate, it could be around the lines of break silos, redesign the operating model, or building a sustainable growth flywheel. I think that’s my real mandate. You know, from a stated mandate perspective, we want to accelerate digital.

We want University Federal Credit Union to be one of the most technologically advanced credit unions that has a modern tech stack, but has member-first experiences, removing friction. But I truly believe once we break those silos, have the right operating model and build a sustainable growth flywheel, it’s amazing. What I’ve learned is that digital isn’t a project. It’s the rewiring of the business. That’s what I’m here to do.

JK: What are the biggest challenges to getting that done?

SG: Quite a few, as we think through the operating model and how we think through folks working together across different teams. And usually thinking through, well, it requires technology, so it’s a project. How do we get that prioritization? I think it’s more in terms of the mindset and how we operate. How do you think through digital not just being something to do via mobile app or on the browser, but in reality, an enterprise transformation. And that’s kind of how I think we have to operate this.

JK: So what was it about UFCU sort of at this time that convinced you that the timing is right to make this move and to sort of take this on?

SG: Well, great team. Excellent member focus, very solid product set, and just the right amount of member-centric experiences that have been built in. I feel that we are at a turning point across financial services. In the past, we used to talk about, say, the four Ps of marketing. And now it’s primarily about that experience and how members perceive that experience. How do we take the friction out of that? And UFCU is very, very well positioned for that. We have an extremely strong member-centric base, over 400,000 members that trust us. Our footprint is very, very strong. And we are at an inflection point for accelerated growth. Timing is perfect.

JK: Yeah, so, you know, we’ve talked before. I’ve done a lot of research on digital transformation in a lot of industries. What makes credit unions different — for better and worse — for digital transformation in credit unions?

SG: Yeah, so I would say credit unions versus non-credit unions, the most important fact is your focus on members. Every single process that we are looking at, every product we are designing, or every project we prioritize, first question we ask ourselves is, how does this make life better for our members? And I think that differentiates quite a bit, right? I worked at big banks. I’m sure you have done research at other financial institutions. Sometimes that focus area isn’t that, you know… definitely focused on the plan and the customer — not taking that away — but there’s also the P&L you have to look at. You have to look at your quarterly earnings. Being a credit union, you’re not worried about that shareholder return; you’re worried about member returns. And how do you provide the best dividend for the member across the products that you have? So that provides a huge advantage. 

The second piece is in terms of nimbleness — smaller organizations, much more effective in terms of getting things done. Decision authority is easier in terms of the capacity. And right now, what I’m also seeing is the ability for us to integrate our tech stack and also operate in a very digital-first, digital-focused manner where we are not just thinking about a specific department, but the entire organization’s operating system and how that can be very, very effective in driving that. What I usually say is designed for digital is an operating model. It’s not a slogan. It’s an enterprise discipline. It touches tech. It touches talent, touches data. And of course, members’ journeys — and that takes us back to the credit union mission.

JK: So if it is an operating model, where does it live on the org chart?

SG: Oh, it sits with every single employee in the company. The best piece about that is it starts with a member. They tell us what journeys work, what journeys don’t work, where the friction is, whether they feel it’s really effective. And then our communities we operate in and what the needs of those communities are. And then for every single employee to live that dream and show that they can drive that success. Success means habits. It’s not about the headlines. It’s the nonnegotiables, which is true, measurable member adoption, and driving reduced cycle times. And that is what every employee should be thinking.

JK: So how do you… I’m reminded of Steve Jobs, who said, you know, that the customer doesn’t necessarily know what they want. My job is to sort of give them something that they don’t even know — in the iPhone — that’s going to be big. So, how do you balance that in a member-centric… by giving them — by testing what it is they maybe don’t know that they need or they want?

SG: Yeah, members usually know what they need, but clearly it’s sometimes hard to define that in a product or service and lay it out. I would say frictionless beats flashy any day. And that is what a member is looking for. A very simplified journey. Let’s take an example — a simplified loan journey. Cut the number of clicks, ship it early, iterate later. The trade-off sometimes is the user experience for the user interface. You know, it could be very basic. And as you iterate, you can make it faster and flashier.

I look at certain examples — and you gave an example of non-financial services — another one is Amazon’s one-click checkout process. And how do you prioritize speed over polish? I don’t think members thank you for perfect design, Jerry. They thank you for less friction. And that’s what they’re looking for in every single journey.

JK: Okay. So you talked about, just a second ago, about measurement. So if we time travel 18 months in the future, what needs to be true for you to say this design for digital worked?

SG: All right. So let’s think about what the future could look like in a space where everything is evolving at a very fast pace. I would say, in terms of our ability to move fast, driving disciplined speed internally will drive success for us. Having teams that have decision rights, compliance enabled, and budgets tied to outcomes — that will define success for the organization. And then, when I look specifically for member experience, I’m looking at experiences where — be it DoorDash’s real-time auto-tracking or Amazon or Netflix’s ability to offer personalized experiences — that’s where we would aim for relevance.

And if we can drive that relevance in every single membership journey, that I think will be the defining success factor for us. The way I think of it is finally where we need to be is: if I wouldn’t want a certain experience as a member, then I don’t want any of our members to go through that experience. And that’s where I would want to build in the ability to have that predictability and that personalization and an experience that members can trust.

JK: So just flipping that script a little bit, are there any KPIs that people typically associate with digital transformation that you just don’t care about — that you don’t pay attention to?

SG: Yeah, for sure. Oh, my gosh. Looking at the dashboard — it’s amazing, right? “How could we make the dashboards look more effective and how can I get that full view on one page?” So there are certain metrics which I think, from a business perspective, we’d want to look at just to ensure, you know, it’s working — routing time, chat time, handle time, anomaly detection, false positives, open rates, click-through rates — all great. I’m looking at trust.

What I want is: does this drive trust in the relationship that I’m building with my member? And if so, that’s the KPI I would look at. So the vanity KPIs — downloads, logins. I want to take a look at them, Jerry, but I’d ignore them. Okay. The ones that are non-negotiable metrics are the member adoption rates, the engagement rates, and loyalty, which would come through the trust that I have built. If members feel the difference, the KPIs will take care of themselves.

JK: Okay. Do you have an example of a single member journey that moved the needle — what the member saw, the friction you removed? Is there one that sort of stands out to you that you’re particularly proud of?

SG: Yeah, so we’ve gone through quite a bit of them. And, you know, I’ll go a little back in time, and hopefully you’ll see the relation over here — back in time. If you had a credit card — let’s say — and you have a bill on that credit card and you have to pay that off, you would actually drive to the branch or go to the branch, stand in line, wait for the teller. And when that opportunity comes, you make that payment — clearly takes 30 minutes of your time, maybe longer, whatever the case may be. And there’s a cost for every transaction processed — we are spending, you know, anywhere between $10 to $20 for that transaction to occur on our end. Fast-forward — we moved that journey to ATMs. And I felt that was good progress. But where I really found the benefit is when I could make auto-payments and give the ability to our customers and members — both at the bank I worked at and the credit unions that I worked at — “You can just set up auto-pay. Forget it. Set and forget.” That journey is so seamless — there is really no journey. What are you trying to solve for? It’s a one-time effort; you put it through.

So building on that, what I would say now — my focus area is: if you’re a new member that’s joining us, how can I take away all the friction from an account-opening process? You know, we started by, “Hey, it takes you 10 minutes to open an account.” Now it takes you five minutes. Now the faster fintechs can do it in three minutes. How do we do that as quickly as possible, as seamlessly as possible with the data that we already have about you? But then take you through an onboarding journey and enable all the alerts, notifications, and personalization effects we can. I think that’s great. But then comes the second piece of that: what’s the next best product? And how can I make that journey even more efficient than the first one when you started with us?

JK: Okay. I’m going to change gears a little bit. I’m reminded of a study I saw where there are actually more bank tellers in the U.S. after the introduction of the ATM than before, yet those bank tellers are doing entirely different work. As you become more digital, what new work shows up in branches and the call center? Like, how does the work change?

SG: For sure. We have all this talk on channel strategies and we are trying to all balance digital work versus branch versus call center. My mantra over there is: digital doesn’t kill branches — it changes their job. And that’s exactly what you’re describing. When digital removes that transaction, branches can start focusing on advice and coaching. I think that’s where the consumer today needs the most support, because I can digital self-serve and I can look at my payment transactions. I can put a check request — whatever I need to do. But where I truly need help is, how do I have a very successful financial wellness program? Where’s that advice coming from and who can coach me?

The incentives for the branches or the call center, in my mind, need to be tied to that member satisfaction and growth, not to channel competition. And when I’m looking at, say, different banks or regional community banks, they’re repositioning their branches for financial wellness really well. I see a lot of traffic in my branches, and we are actually expanding the number of branches we have in our footprint, because our members are coming in for that financial advice or that financial wellness or that coaching.

I look at an indirect example — something that motivated me many years ago was Apple Stores and just thinking through how they became advisory hubs and not checkout counters. So Jerry, if you go back in time, you would actually go to a Best Buy or whatever because you were trying to check out a certain product or you were purchasing. You’re going to an Apple Store for advice. That advisory hub model is so important. So the lesson I’ve learned is, irrespective of the channel — digital, branch, or call center — of course, you want the best possible frictionless experiences on all of them. But we want to reward collaboration. There’s no turf wars. It’s how do these channels come together so that they are at the fingertips of the members when and where they need us.

JK: A lot of what I’ve heard, though, is as companies do that — and most of my examples are from outside of financial services — it’s challenging to get employees to understand that their job has changed as a result of digital. So how do you communicate that? How do you get people to realize and accept and embrace that their job is changing as a result of these new tools?

SG: Yeah, it’s a little bit of strong communication, but it’s also the need for data and experiences. When we look at what’s really breakthrough for the members, it’s, “How can I make this service or product best suited for me?” That’s that personalization part. How do I explain that to the front end — what the member is looking for and what pain point they’re trying to solve?

Now, when you’re looking for a new product or service, you’re doing a lot of comparison. Ask consumers ourselves — what are the channels we go to first when we have to do a product comparison? Probably digital. And the reason for that is because now we have, at our fingertips, a lot of information. And we haven’t spoken about AI yet — we’ll probably get to it later — but it gives us those tools and capabilities. Our front-end employees are consumers as well. They’re members too, and they understand what their needs are. They’re going through different life cycles and life stages.

And that’s what we try to make very, very clear: irrespective of the channel you’re in, if a member is coming to you, they’re coming to you because they have a specific need that they probably couldn’t self-serve. And chances are, they may have gone to the digital channels for self-service first. But if you need advice on a home mortgage or an auto loan you’re taking for the first time, or a student checking account that you haven’t had in the past and you’re opening, or you just started at a school and you want to understand your options — you’re probably coming into a branch for that guidance. And if you can provide that guidance, that’s the best use and the most value you can provide to your members. I do feel the employees understand that. They put themselves in the shoes of the member.

I was at a recent branch visit, and I was talking to some of the folks at the branches. They were showing me a few pages they had put together because they said that some of the non-members who are coming in and opening accounts with us are asking the same questions. And they’ve actually put these pages together where they can walk them through it. And in some cases, you can clearly see how they’ve already personalized those answers based on the needs of the members. So there’s no more of a script. It’s, “Hey, what is your need, and how can I help solve that test?”

JK: So, you opened the door to AI, so I’ll walk through it — because, you know, that’s all I spend my time talking about these days. And that’s all we hear about — AI, AI, AI. What part of AI is real and can deliver value, and what part do you think is hype or overhyped?

SG: I think it’s all a case-by-case basis. AI isn’t a lab demo — it’s live. It’s out there. It’s happening. And we have to find that right balance between, is it for operational efficiency, or is it for growth? And right now, I can tell you most of the use cases I’m seeing are in the growth phase, because the ones that were quick fixes for the past few years, we’ve already been working on those.

So when I look at it from a member servicing perspective — routing, chatbots, helping reduce handle times — it’s a no-brainer. Fraud operations, anomaly detection, fewer false positives — making it so much more efficient for the organization — again, a no-brainer. But then when I’m looking at what that “day two” impact could be with the use of AI in production, it’s probably freeing my staff for those high-value conversations we were talking about earlier.

So when I look at different examples — again, let’s look at an out-of-industry example — airlines use AI to auto-schedule crews. And they’re doing a pretty good job. Look at the apps and how they’ve advanced, and the algorithms that are being utilized. AI’s value is an hour saved and trust earned. And if the use case can provide that value, I think it’s ready for today. If it cannot, then we still have work to do. But there are certain guardrails we have to put in place. I do personally feel that transparency builds trust — not algorithms — and that’s why you need the right AI use cases based on need.

JK: Yeah, I get into disagreements with my team at Filene occasionally because we talk about AI and they say, “Well, AI is really recovering that in the credit union of the future.” I’m like, it’s not the credit union of the future — it’s the credit union now. Because these tools are ready for prime time. At the same time, I want to push back a little bit — certainly some of it’s hype. You know, there’s no way it’s all delivered yet. What parts do you think are hype — that you’re not ignoring, but you think are on a much longer timeline before they deliver value?

SG: Yeah, it’s that promise that AI can just be in every single journey and make it more effective. I don’t think that’s true. There are certain cases where members would actually want some friction in the process. I do feel, when it comes to things like taking out loans or mortgages, you do want that understanding — that hand-holding. You want to understand the terms and conditions and what it means over the next 5, 10, 15, or 30 years if you’re signing up for that amount of time. AI can provide you the tool and give you a recommendation. But is it actually teaching you and walking you through those steps so you really feel like, “I’m well-informed, and I’m making the right decision for myself”? I don’t think we’re there yet. But I do feel that if you pick up any tool that provides those capabilities and plug in the questions, it’ll give you an answer. But is that answer truly catered to you?

I feel AI is doing a great job, and we are on that journey where it’s getting personalized to the member — but it’s not there yet. So for that, I do feel that it’s a little early. That personalization — the next best product — the algorithms work, but you have to test and learn. I would still trust my front line. I would still trust the additional algorithms that I’m putting on the back end to provide those outputs. But I do want to explain to my members why this is right for them. Clearly, when I look at intrusive predictive marketing using AI, I don’t think I’m ready to approve that. I’m good with predictive marketing — but not AI intrusive. That’s where I would probably think twice before I go ahead and apply AI use cases.

JK: What about — I hear all the time about agentic AI. Where does that fall on the hype meter? Is that something imminent in the next 12 months, or is that a longer-term play?

SG: That is absolutely imminent — again, in the right use cases. If you’re building it right, ensuring that it’s iterating at the pace we’d like, and there are the right guardrails — and we ensure that we feel the data is governed well, with the right ethical parameters in place — I think it’s now.

JK: Is there a use case in particular for agentic AI that you guys are experimenting with or thinking about?

SG: We are testing a few right now. I wouldn’t be sharing them prime time at this point as the tests are concurrent, but we are testing quite a lot of use cases in-market — either within or outside our scope right now — where we feel they’ll be extremely beneficial for our members and for the business.

JK: You’re not going to share proprietary information on this podcast, Sumeet?

SG: That’d sound a little odd, right?

JK: Yes. Well, and to be fair — to give a plug for Filene — we’re also experimenting in the Filene Lab with agentic AI this cycle, and we’ll have some experiments running there that will be coming out soon. So exciting things on those fronts.

SG: That’s great.

JK: I’m teeing you up for a softball here, Sumeet, because I know this is one of yours. You’ve used the term personalization a number of times. What is personalization — and what is personalization not?

SG: Okay. So, well, it’s great you bring that up. I was hoping for some bigger words, because I think personalization is so… like, old. Then we went to hyper-personalization, and now I’ve been hearing “ultimate hyper-personalization.” I was waiting for that next term. I had one — double-plus personalization.

JK: There you go.

SG: Sounds great. And just throw AI in there as well.

JK: Exactly.

SG: I do feel it’s whatever you know about me that can help make my experience even better — that’s what I’m looking for. And I do also suggest that you ask the second part — what it’s not. It’s not Big Brother. It’s not that I’m following all your transactions so I know more about you. It’s only so that I can customize the offerings for you or change the experiences based on that. Very early on, when we had just started doing this — I’m going decades back — we would send emails and we would put your name on those emails or say, “Hey, you’ve been a member with us for six years,” or “You’ve been a client for 30 years — congratulations.” That was probably the first form of it. And clearly it made you feel personal, but it didn’t really provide that direct value — what it meant, how you could benefit from it.

We’ve come a long way from that. Again, I’m looking at indirect examples that help me think through this. Take Spotify — Spotify knows what song I want to hear. And Jerry, I may have no idea I want to hear that song. But when I hear it, I’m like, “Oh, they got it right — this is the mood I was in.” How did it know that? And how did it do that? And I don’t feel Big Brother about it, because I’m listening to music, and I would love for that decision to go out of my hands and for my tool to tell me, “Hey, this is what’s right for you — this is what’s going to work well.” That’s where I want to be with personalization when it comes to our digital capabilities and offering those tools to our folks at the branch or the call center as well. So a lot of love for personalization — very, very successful use cases — and we’ll continue to build on them.

JK: So, in my class, when I’m teaching digital transformation and stuff, we talk about the creepy-cool line. So, you know, personalization becomes really cool — until there’s one use case that becomes creepy. And I think you were talking about that — your Big Brother example. How do you — and that line changes over time — how do you make sure you stay on the right side of that line as an organization?

SG: Yeah, start with the fact of how would my member utilize this and what value it adds for them. Because if it’s not adding value to the member and it’s just adding value to your own process, then you need to be very honest and transparent about that. If it adds value to the member, they will see it and accept it.

I take examples from different experiences — take an example from Disney and how they have kind of taken personalization to the whole next level just based on how you interact at their parks and what is offered to you based on that. Or think about Spotify, which we spoke about earlier. The same example goes for Netflix. Take it a step further — when you’re taking your Uber or Lyft and you just land at the airport, somehow that tool already knows and it says, “Hey, book your next ride,” and not only that, it even tells you where it thinks you’re going. And this is when the systems are not even fully integrated. Apple, of course, has a much more integrated ecosystem. But even with that, do you think as consumers we’d react and say, “Hey, I don’t want to watch that movie,” or “I don’t want to go on that ride,” or “I don’t want to listen to that song”? We’re totally comfortable with that.

So why differentiate financial services — and how do we do that? I think it comes down to how we communicate and how we show the value to the member. There are examples where it can be a win and examples where it can be a fail. I’ll give you an example where it’s a fail. It could be a fail where we think through, “Hey, I’m creating a budgeting tool for you,” and that budgeting tool is not hyper-personalized to my needs. It’s based on a mass-market consumer model that meets the needs of the maximum and is defined based on that. The adoption is going to be low. And I can tell you, there have been many financial institutions that have built very niche budgeting tools that haven’t worked because personalization was not taken into account from a specific member’s perspective.

JK: Yeah, you mentioned Disney. I was fortunate to be one of the first pilot users of their MagicBands back in the day. And as a business school professor, I thought it was amazing because it was the single most effective money vacuum I’d ever seen. As a father, I was horrified because it was the single most effective money vacuum I’d ever seen. But I remember when my son was boarding Pirates of the Caribbean, the guy said to my son, “Connor, have a great trip on Pirates of the Caribbean,” and my son’s eyes just lit up because of that personalized experience — like, “How did this guy know who I am?” It made the entire trip for him.

So, you talked about Apple and Disney and some companies like that. What’s the right frame of reference for these credit union digital journeys? Is it other credit unions, big banks or fintechs, or is it the Disney-Amazon-Google experience?

SG: I think it’s none of the above. I really think it’s what’s best for the member. And how do we look ahead? I think you started with this, right — in terms of the future and where we are. And I would say right now, today’s cutting edge is probably tomorrow’s clutter. That’s how fast we’re evolving. We’re moving away from, “How do you use technology to reset your password?” to, “How do you use AI as a co-pilot tool?” to, “How do you use biometrics to replace your password in apps?” I think all of those are great use cases, but I’m not trying to compare, and I don’t think any financial institution should try to compare in terms of what to pick from X or Y. You’re looking at those ideas as case studies, but you have to look at your consumer base. You have to look at your member base and say, “What’s best for them, and what do I need to do there?” And I know, Jerry, we probably didn’t talk about it, but that’s where you have to make the decisions in terms of, are you building? Are you buying? Are you partnering? What does that look like?

JK: Yep.

SG: But you have to create an experience that’s unique to you. What differentiates UFCU for its members is different than any other company and their consumer set.

JK: Yeah.

SG: So for me, my members are the most important, and I’m going to differentiate and give them the best possible experiences I can.

JK: Well, I’ve totally lost where I am in the script at this point, but that’s good because that means this is a conversation. So you talk about make versus build versus buy versus rent. How do you make those decisions?

SG: Yeah, I want to differentiate where it touches the member. So I’m going to build something that’s a member-facing experience that utilizes my data and helps me build a personalization engine that will be extremely beneficial to the member. I’m going to rent something that’s a commodity — a commodity system, platform, tool, or capability.

I look at different examples — again, out-of-industry since we’ve kind of kept that as a theme for each question at this point. You know, Tesla builds the operating system of the user experience, but they rent the commodity parts. So the lesson I’m taking from that is: if it shapes trust, I’m going to build it. If it’s plumbing, I’m going to rent it.

Now, there are risks I have to be mindful of, right? Cool doesn’t always scale. So I can’t just go for what’s cool. But I have a strategy where I’m looking at open APIs, modular architecture, and the right exit clauses. I need to know what my data portability is going to look like. And we’re not talking about AI today, but I just wanted to put it in there — sometimes it’s taken as if you’re designing for digital, what is your architecture going to look like? For me, that’s a separate question. We can look at technology and make those decisions. But if it impacts direct member-facing experiences, I want to control and build those.

JK: Okay. So when you say control and build — I’m getting introduced to this whole concept of CUSOs that I’d not heard of before. And I’ve talked to some credit unions that build their own member-facing technology and then rent or sell it to other credit unions. So is that different than buying an off-the-shelf solution — you know, by going to a CUSO — and have you thought about that as UFCU, about rolling out your own CUSO as an opportunity to resell what you’re building?

SG: So we look at CUSOs all the time, and you want to make sure it’s the right experience. So, Jerry, that’s kind of the hybrid model now, right? So what we’re saying is, I can build this. I have the capability, I have the resources, I have the dollars, I have the people and the talent — then I can put this in place. But my peers may not be in that same boat. Other credit unions want to offer the same experience, but for them, it might be way too expensive to build it on their own. And now they have — at least I have — access to something that, if I can share with them and they can benefit, why not?

And that is where that CUSO model comes into play, where if we can come together and build and share our resources and come up with the solution that we were looking for — which maybe one of us alone might not have gone down the path of — hey, it’s a win-win situation. Why not? I don’t think it applies in all cases. Of course, there’s quite a lot of CUSOs out there, so you have to look at your business model and see where it makes sense versus where it does not. I would always say, be it CUSOs or fintech partners, keep your eyes wide open and understand what you’re getting into. And if this is something you really are very passionate about, do your homework.

JK: Okay. So, going back to the script where we were before — one thing I’ve heard in my research is there’s this assumption that digital is only for the young folks, that only young folks are looking for this digital experience. Is there anything in your experience that contradicts this stereotype about older members and technology?

SG: Older members and technology — that is so interesting. Age is a number, right? So let’s look at this. Age is not destiny when it comes to digital adoption. Data shows that older members actually adapt when the design is simple and readable, accessible, and easy. So the adoption is not about, “Hey, I’m not comfortable with an app or a smartphone.” It’s more about the design and the flow. The breakthrough, I feel — and specifically, you mentioned older members — the breakthrough for older members is plain language, simpler fonts, very clear call-to-actions or tap targets, and just making it accessible and usable for everyone.

Let’s take an indirect example again. What kind of got me excited was when iPads became popular with seniors because of their intuitive design. Some of the ads were even showing older adults using iPads to make calls and talk to their grandkids. Now, it was so much easier when you could pick up your landline and dial those numbers and talk, but imagine what iPads did. And this was entirely digital. And tell me — which older member who’s closer to their grandkids wouldn’t want to use that technology and be able to see them and talk to them at the same time? So what made it easy? It was that accessibility. It was a simple design.

I actually had an engineer once on my team who I had hired, who used to work for one of the tech companies and was very focused on UX/UI design for products that catered to older members. And he said, “Anything that takes five or six clicks, I try to do in two clicks. I try to build an experience where it’s so much easier and intuitive.” That adoption — and the reason for that adoption — is what matters. Technology is just an enabler.

JK: Yeah, my own grandmother, who’s since passed, didn’t use computers. But when she got a Kindle Fire for Christmas, she became a super user. And it wasn’t just being able to talk to her grandkids — with social media, it was much easier to follow them without having to intrude on their time. You still had the conversations, of course, but she could follow along in a much richer way than was possible before. And that was a real motivating factor. She didn’t have to sit at a desktop with arthritic hands — she could sit in her recliner and just browse. It was a great experience for her.

SG: That’s a great example. And I know during COVID, a lot of that acceleration occurred where there might have been some hesitation in terms of digital adoption — but irrespective of age, that digital adoption accelerated at a very fast pace. A question that I was asked — and Jerry, you implied this earlier too — is in terms of, “If I can do this in the app versus in the branch, how should I think through that?” I still feel: right task, right place. For routine work, digital; for trust-heavy work, branch. Branch insights often improve the digital design that we put in place. So it’s truly omnichannel, working together across the board.

Let’s take an out-of-industry example here. This might not be directly tied to older members, but Best Buy sells online now — you can buy products online. Yet Geek Squad is offered in-store. And when you think through that, physical informs digital more than people realize. And I do feel that’s kind of where the cutting edge is — simplify the experience, and you can have all generations be part of it.

JK: Yep. And Best Buy is still here and Circuit City is not. And Borders is not. And so, you know, that has been the thing. So let’s follow up on that. So UFCU has a recent branch expansion, I think UT Health Houston. So physical is still strategic. How do you make that decision about what belongs in-branch versus online?

SG: Yeah, that’s a lot to do also with our segmentation strategy and our footprint. So thinking through the marketing — segmentation, targeting, positioning — understanding the needs of that community and the locality we’re in, or where we’re not, and where we see potential members being able to use the services and products we offer. One of the things I’ve been talking about — I spent 20 years at a bank before I moved to credit unions — and I can tell you, not many people realize even now that they can be part of certain credit unions. You’d drive by and see a credit union and, based on the name or title, you’d just assume, “Hey, I can’t be a member there,” or, “I don’t qualify,” or whatever the case may be. But then there’s also the critical side, which is, “Hey, it’s a credit union — can they offer the same level of services or speed or reliability or in-app experiences that the bigger financial institutions can?” Removing that myth is critical. And when we look at certain geographies and the foot traffic we see, it’s a no-brainer. There are potential members who can truly benefit from the products and services we offer, and we’d love to have them as members because we really feel we can make a difference in their lives. We offer — and that’s why we’re opening new branches.

One of the examples I’ll give you: one of the newer branches we opened — the first client that came in and took an auto loan from us went from a double-digit loan to a much lower rate. And we calculated it and said, “What a huge win for the member.” They were at a much higher rate, and we were able to offer this service and simplify that experience for them in the location where they are. There are still underserved and underbanked communities. There’s still that lack of knowledge about the right products and services. And we feel our branches can offer those in different areas — and that’s why we’re expanding.

JK: Yeah, and just shifting the age thing — I had Chris Giles from Maps Credit Union as a guest speaker in my class. And my student who was hosting him at the end said, “Why haven’t I heard about credit unions before? Because these things are amazing — I’d love to do business with a place like this.” And so I do think for the younger generation, there’s a lot about the credit union model that’s appealing — it’s just about getting that message out there. And I think branches are an important part of that.

SG: I agree. Sometimes it’s hard, though — since you mentioned that, I’ll just add — credit unions don’t have the marketing budgets that bigger financial institutions have. So how do you get the word out? Because there’s a lot of noise, and breaking through that clutter isn’t easy. That’s where digital tools provide the best possible capability to reach potential consumers.

JK: So, changing subjects again — I used to take my students to go see Facebook, and in the early days they had a famous motto: “Move fast and break things.” You want to move fast in financial services, but you don’t want to break things. So how do you go about being nimble, being agile, being innovative — without breaking risk and compliance?

SG: Yeah. And that’s where I feel we all need agility — but agility not from a perspective of speed, but disciplined speed. How do you build that and ensure you have it right? Compliance embedded, the right decision rights, and the teams you’re empowering. And again, the outcomes you’re looking for. That governance and agility can coexist — it has to be by design. It cannot be by luck. And that’s what’s going to drive success.

JK: Yeah. Are there any disaster scenarios you prepare or war game for?

SG: Oh, all the time. Oh, my gosh, yes. You know, the simpler ones, which are probably on everybody’s list — system downtime, vendor batch issues, load rebalancing, outages that weren’t expected, a bug that was just introduced — fixing something and something else got broken. You know, just trying to work through all of that. And again, the world of digital has opened new doors when it comes to cyber simulations, attacks, ransomware. How do you plan for that? Resilience is invisible success. And that’s where you prepare for those failure modes and scenarios, and ensure you have regular drills and the right tools and capabilities in place.

JK: So we’ve talked a lot about the successes — and you’ve certainly done a lot right in your career, and UFCU is doing a lot right. Has there been a digital bet that you made that underdelivered? And how did you do a post-mortem on that — how did it reshape your roadmap or governance?

SG: Yeah, every miss is kind of a learning for the future, and you integrate that. And there are quite a lot of lessons. I’ll tell you, being at the forefront of digital early in my career, we were trying to do things that hadn’t been done before. So there were new features and capabilities we were testing and putting into the marketplace. And this was when I was at a bigger bank. We had a lot of tools and capabilities at our disposal as we were thinking through what we wanted to test and put out there. And I’ll tell you — there are times when you fail because you’re just testing, and that’s totally okay. Five ideas you put out, two work out great, and three don’t — that’s great learning.

JK: If you’re in baseball, that’s a Hall of Fame career.

SG: Yes, there you go. But then there’s also the flip side, where if you bet really big and it doesn’t work out as planned, that happens too. I’ll start with an out-of-industry example and then come back to some of ours. When you look at technology over the past few years — be it Google or Apple — coming up with new hardware. You may have tried some of those multi-thousand-dollar glasses or whatever the case may be, and you’re like, “This doesn’t work how I expected.” Or think about augmented reality and what it was supposed to do for us a few years ago — where the bets were being made and how that’s translated.

Similarly, in financial services, we’ve put a lot of effort into looking at different experiences and seeing, “Hey, are these new products and services going to meet the needs of our members?” And there are times when they don’t. So you go back to the basics and say, “What does that look like?” I’m looking at the future and thinking, all right, what is the future of payments and what payment rails do I need to be part of? What do I make the bet on, Jerry — is it Zelle, is it Venmo, is it Cash App? I don’t know. But I have to make a decision. And in certain cases, I’m going to partner with whoever I feel the leading edge will be.

In other cases, consolidations will happen in the industry and I’ll have to react. I look at every single failure in that case as an opportunity to learn, but at the same time, I have to be mindful of the resources I’m putting out there — and also what it does to member experiences over time.

JK: Sumeet, this won’t translate to our audio format, but I had to put these on in reaction to your last comment. (laughs) I am now wearing my original V1 Google Glass that I keep on display in my office. And you use it 24/7, correct?

SG: Absolutely. Still.

JK: I was there. I’ve seen some of those. But you can’t always predict where technologies will go — you can predict the trends, the large trends — but sometimes it’s hard to predict the actual winners and the actual timeline. That said, I’m going to ask you to do a completely unfair thing and predict the future. Complete this sentence: In 24 months, the thing we’re doing today that will look quaint is ____, and the thing we’re underestimating is ____ — and why.

SG: All right. Can you repeat that?

JK: In 24 months, the thing we’re doing today that will look quaint is ____, and the thing we’re underestimating today is ____.

SG: The thing that’s going to look quaint is probably password resets. I don’t even need to remember my passwords anymore, so I don’t think we have to wait 24 months for that — that’s now.

And the thing we’re underestimating — I think it’s going to be all about member trust and how we bring that to the forefront in every single interaction we have with them. Technology is going to get us there.

JK: So if you could embed one habit in every product squad tomorrow, what would it be? And what would be one ritual you’d kill?

SG: The one thing I’d definitely put in is: every decision has to start with “What value does it add for the member?” And what I’d kill is dashboards. I want real-time tracking. I don’t want to see dashboards used as lagging indicators and then make decisions from them. Let’s see what’s going on, let’s be real-time, and let’s move fast and create more value.

JK: So as you modernize, how do you keep the member-owned ethos tangible — particularly as UFCU grows its physical presence? What does that look like on the ground?

SG: I feel it’s about listening to your members — understanding their feedback and where they’re coming from — and ensuring that there’s a bias for action that makes their lives better. The individuals may or may not have that direct authority when you look at the RACI model, but make sure you share that feedback with the right folks in the organization so you can absolutely drive it. Be it as small as possible, habits will always outlast strategy decks. And I want every single frontline employee to have a habit of member-first mindset and move from there.

JK: Okay, and we’re coming to the bottom of our time, but I want to get to our lightning round — a couple of wrap-up questions. Start, stop, or scale — what one practice do you want to start, what do you want to stop, and what would you like to scale?

SG: Start continuous listening loops across all channels. Stop vanity projects. Scale frontline empowerment — any day.

JK: Perfect. And then, career advice. We’re hearing a lot about AI in the job market and the labor market. What’s one thing rising digital leaders should do this quarter?

SG: I think every single digital leader should do this: shadow your frontline, the squad — shadow them every week if you can. Shadow your frontline. I guarantee your roadmap will never look the same.

JK: Okay, last question I always ask every interview guest — is there anything I should have asked but didn’t?

SG: Oh my gosh — after that many questions? No, we had a pretty rapid fire. And you said, “Jerry, there’s no way we’re going to get through this script in the time we have,” and you’ve done a great job. I’m impressed.

JK: (laughing) That’s what happens when you’re in a meeting for five hours before a podcast — you’re sort of jacked up.

SG: This has been fun. Maybe one question we could have gotten into is talent — what does the look-ahead on talent mean, and how should we think through that? And I feel where we need to be is focused on the fact that velocity and learning will beat bureaucracy every single time. Our talent needs to understand the needs of our members, the needs of our colleagues, and the needs of our community. Digital scaling must still feel extremely local and personalized; otherwise it won’t be successful. Modern doesn’t mean distant — it means more present.

JK: Well, Sumeet, thank you so much for your time. This has been a ton of fun. My brain’s been on fire the whole time as we’ve gotten into these conversations. For listeners, we’ll link to the UFCU updates and resources in the show notes. And if this episode helped, share it with a teammate who’s working on Design for Digital.

Sumeet, thanks so much for your time.

SG: Thank you for having me.

Announcing!

Quinn Kinzler: Before we wrap up, a quick update for you all. In the new year, we’ll be relaunching the Filene Fill-In with a renewed focus on our Centers of Excellence.

We’ll be featuring important conversations with our Fellows and deep dives with guests who bring fresh insights into Filene’s core research questions.

To get you ready, we’ll be dropping a few bonus episodes after the Design for Digital takeover. So keep an ear out for those, and be sure to subscribe so the latest and greatest is always right at the top of your feed each time we release.

We can’t wait to share what’s ahead — and thanks so much for listening. We’ll see you soon on the Filene Fill-In.